Dream of Siam

Marcel E is a Swiss-born entrepreneur and business consultant. Marcel splits time between Hong Kong and Bangkok.

Part One - Life

You were born in Switzerland, a wealthy and beautiful country. Did you enjoy a happy life growing up and living there?

I was born in 71. I grew up in Teufen, a small village in Appenzell Outer Rhodes. In my early years my grandparents took care of me. Switzerland in the 70ies and early 80ies was a great place to grow up.

Did you have to ski to school in the Winter?

I can’t really ski. But like every kid I had a sledge and yes it’s true, when there was snow on the road, I went to school on a small sledge. But of course we had to sledge on the sidewalk. After all it’s Switzerland.

You spent around a year in Army service in Switzerland. What sort of duty did you perform in the army and was it compulsory service?

It was compulsory. Most of the equipment was from the 1950ies. I remember one time I was given a sharp shooter rifle. Due to the rain, it was wet inside the binocular and it had a blurred vision. I was laying on a hill and behind me was the commanding officer and told me to shoot, it was during a maneuver with lots of my friends running all over the place in front of me. I told him that I did not see a thing. He said, just aim over the barrel but try not to kill anybody. I did what I was told. I was looking where the bullet had hit and aimed a little closer to the target. Almost every day we used life bullets, real stick hand grenades, designed 1943 etc. The told us to diminish the stocks, since they were expecting a total overhaul of the Swiss Army equipment. And God, yes we diminished those stocks. I was always surprised that we did not have more accidents, because the people who trained us just got their basic training behind them.

It seems you've had the urge to travel for quite some time, as after the army you spent a year on a kibbutz in Israel. Was it the urge to travel that took you to Israel or was there some other motive?

Switzerland in the late eighties and early nineties was a Mecca for hard drugs. They had open air markets where they would sell basically anything and the police would just let them do whatever they want. If a junkie collapsed, the police would just call the ambulance. A very weird phenomenon, which produced the infamous Zurich needle park. Most of my friends back then were seriously involved in drug consumption and many died, I also was on the wrong path and I knew something had to be done. I did not want to do organized rehab, that’s more for people who are not sure if they want to quit or not. Hashomer Hatzair sent me to a small kibbutz on the boarder to Gaza and Egypt called Kerem Shalom. I was working in the fields. On Saturdays I often sneaked over to Gaza to play football with the Palestinians. It was not so easy since the Israeli army had put up a fence (but with many holes) and a sand strip, so they could see the footsteps when you crossed it… Sometimes we were playing hid and seek with them, which was probably not such a good idea. I went over to Khan Yunis also a couple of times and everybody was extremely upset with me at the kibbutz for doing that. Not because they did not like the Arabs, but they just thought it was dangerous. I thought it was not.

After the kibbutz you ended up in South Africa as a restaurant manager and then as a tourism developer in Kenya. Did you find it much of a culture shock moving to Africa, or did your experience in Israel prepare you, to a certain extent, for the relative poverty that you must have seen in Africa?

Yeah, well I spent some time in Africa. I always loved Toto song: “I bless the rains down in Africa”. Was Africa a culture shock? Not really. After a week or two it passes. The biggest culture shock I had in India, I doubt if I would like to live there. Africans are very nice and gentle. Do not think because there are many bad black boys over in Europe, that the rest of Africa is like that. I met very sincere people in Africa, well to be honest not so much South Africa. The country was and probably still is torn apart by hate and greed. When I entered the kitchen of the restaurant I worked in SA, the blacks gave me these mean looks. I was trying to be friendly with them, but it was hopeless, their prejudice against me as a white guy was too deep. There were also some AWB people coming to the bar, some Hells Angels from the local chapter. One time a guy wanted to shoot his girlfriend in the restaurant, other times we were robbed. It was like working in the wild west. When I was in South Africa I lived with a Boer family from a guy I met on the kibbutz and I ended up dating his sister. Their house was not far from a township called Katlehong. Since I lived with these people I asked the parents for permission to go out with their daughter. You have to behave in other peoples homes. But back to your question. Israel is a very developed country, there is no extreme poverty per se. But if you talk Gaza or West Bank, yeah the Arabs live or have to live a bit different. Sure Israel got lots of money from the US, but then they have a very pragmatic approach to solve problems, sometimes a bit too pragmatic. Of course now, Gaza must look terrible. The whole situation in the Middle East is so much worse now since I have been there. But I had many Palestinian friends, and of course I had many Israeli friends. I try to judge the person, not their religion or ethnical background.

You worked as a trade merchant in Panama for a couple of years. Was Panama the sort of place you were relieved to be leaving, or was it somewhere you left with fond memories and a desire to return one day?

Good question. I was trading in Switzerland with some Panamanian companies and one called me over. I did not like Panama that much. They did not like my face because they thought I was ‘gringo’ i.e. North American. Of course it was an advantage to speak Spanish, that got me much more accepted. And it helps being Swiss. I established some very decent friendships with some fishermen there, extremely nice and polite people and I would love to see them again one day. Panama went downhill the last couple of years. It had a great infrastructure and it was quite safe. But I personally liked “Costa Rrrica” more.

How did you rate the Panamanian women?

I am not so much into Latinas and Panama is certainly not famous for girls. Costa Rica on the other hand is quite an interesting place in that regard. I liked Spanish girls when I was living Spain to a certain extent. But then they can be very melodramatic. There was a school nearby where some North Americans came to study Spanish. I must say I was more attracted to these women than I was to the locals. Of course some American girls were total airheads, the Tara Reid type. But others were extremely sophisticated, to my surprise.

You ended up back in Switzerland and found yourself working for Klaus J Jacobs, the Swiss entrepreneur (Adecco, Barry Callebaut, Infront Media). That seems to have been a period of stability and success for you. Did you gain some entrepreneurial insights working with a very successful and wealthy guy like Jacobs?

Mr. Jacobs was certainly not a “wealthy guy” to me. I have great respect for the man and his family and his friends. I am also unsure if it was a period of stability, since the air becomes very thin if you work in high altitudes. It was a success that I was able to perform my job well, as his private secretary.

Judging by your paintings on your website you are a talented artist. Do you still find time to paint these days and if so is it a hobby or something you do professionally?

Ah, you saw them. It’s nothing basically. Two years ago I had an artistic streak and I did them. I wanted to capture the American spirit. The project was called after the Door’s song L’america which is actually about the people of Latin America, but I liked the name l’america. It’s not that difficult as it seems more like painting by numbers and gosh, some look horrible. The mentioned website is more personal. There are other websites which are more professional oriented.

Part two - Thailand

Eventually you decided to settle in Thailand in 2004. Was that on your first trip to Thailand, or had you visited previously?

I came to Bangkok back in 99 and I did not like it, I thought it was the worst place I had ever seen. A taxi charged me like one thousand Baht and dropped me off in somewhere near the old airport, in an overcrowded, dirty area. I should have read a book about the city. But then, no matter how you prepare yourself the con men can see that you are new and you have no real clue. They take total advantage of it. I remember that I had checked into a hotel and lo and behold, they were trying to send me a hooker up to the room after just five minutes. I checked out the next day and went to Kho Samui, which I found nothing special. I ended up in a monastery in the north. I wondered how anybody could like this country, but after a couple of years, I came back. It was the start of a love/hate relationship with Thailand. I am unsure if I would use the term ‘settle’. I came to Thailand in 2004 because I was burned out. I thought I would hang out in Bangkok for a month or two and then move back. Well, it came different.

What were the factors that led to your decision to leave Switzerland behind and settle in Thailand?

I wanted to go to a place where nobody knew me and where I was left alone, but still had the basic infrastructure of the west. I did not wanna go to the desert. I had done that before. In Bangkok you can lose yourself, forget for a while where you came from and where you are going. It’s like a time out of mind, but in a comfortable way. Bangkok has great restaurants, cinemas etc. Most people don’t realize that, they only see the naughty nightlife. Go buy a ticket to Bangkok from a travel agency. You will get funny looks. Thailand can bring out the best or worst in you. I played squash, went rowing on the park lakes and I started to run for instance. Something I never thought I would be doing. To people out there it might sound ridiculous, but I hardly went out at night. But I became friends with the band at Radio City, also with the Elvis and Tom Jones imitators. I must have seen the show more than 50 times and I actually became pretty addicted to the real Elvis, especially his later work and songs like ‘long black limousine’. I like to go out in KL and Singapore, where different cultures mingle. Taken on the cultural side, Bangkok is dull. If you are looking for sophistication here, you are in the wrong place. An Austrian friend once said he would not be surprised if the National Library would consist of comic books. I did not agree with him of course. I said to him they were probably plastic mockups.

When you first arrived in Thailand did you suffer any 'culture shock' or did you settle into Thai life easily?

I lived a very sheltered life in the Centre Point on Wireless Road. It was my personal ivory tower. All I wanted to see was Chidlom, Siam Square and the parks. I could not bear the thought of having to live at Sukhumvit or Silom. I personally think if you live in Bangkok, you have to stay in a clean, quiet and nice place. It will cost you a fortune, but it will be worth it. The city is a real jungle and it’s better not to let the jungle into your home.

What has been your general opinion of the 'farangs' you have encountered in Thailand?

Well I would not use the term ‘farangs’ because it’s like calling our self by a derogatory name. But looking at the foreigners living in Thailand, maybe the term is justified. I do have friends here, one of my best friends is Ito, a Japanese who worked as airline manager, he is over 60 now. I had some other Japanese friends, but they have left. They were working for the Japanese embassy. But I also got western friends: Chris Moore (a Canadian writer), Ralph Tooten (a German photographer) and Ralph Baumgarten (of Baumgarten Brandt, a German lawyer). Another one of my friends is running a Bangkok blog.

You've written online in the past about things that have frustrated you in daily life in Thailand, but here you are, three years on and seemingly successfully and happily still living in Thailand. What are some of the positive things that you have kept you from leaving Thailand?

I did some writing that’s right. I am not sure if it was a generally a frustrated writing, because the writing made me happy. It was merely day to day stories, some days had more positive news some days more negative. These stories were chronicles of me peeling the Thai onion. The funny thing is, you will eventually get back to your first layer. Maybe you will peel again, maybe not. The beginning and the end is the same. Try to cut water in slices, it's difficult. You have to go with the flow or get out of it. What has kept me in Bangkok? Recently it was only the lease contract.

I know you've had some experiences relating to the Boxing Day 2004 Tsunami. Where you actually caught up in the tsunami itself, or was it through friends being involved that you were affected? Could you relate some of your experiences?

I was in my apartment on a high floor when the building started to shake. I thought I was dizzy, but soon realized that something was not ok with the building. In the beginning the world knew much more about the effects of the tsunami than the people living in Thailand. It became only a topic after the local newspapers reported that the grandson of the king died. When I realized the effects, I volunteered at the embassy of course. To my surprise a former colleague from work and her boyfriend were among the victims. I have to say that the Swiss embassy was very helpful to them, and especially the former Swiss ambassador HP Erismann took care of the situation extremely well. I think some people are still in his debt. That would include me as well.

Do you think that over the last few years things have become easier or harder for you with regards living in Thailand?

Oh, yes it’s harder now. Of course this is complaining on a high level, but things gone really downhill in the last year, no question about it. I think the current politics will put Thailand back to the 1970’s. But then this might be wishful thinking. Maybe the future is just very much like the present, only longer.

Has the coup in Thailand had much affect on your day to day life?

Yes, very much so. I had some friends in the ruling party and I will never forget what a fellow Swiss said to the press: “The coup went smooth as silk.” I am always bewildered on foreigners who sympathize with anti democratic undercurrents here. For me, the extent of nationalism in Thailand reminds me of a bygone era in Europe. But back on the question: Whatever your opinion might be, the ousted PM was elected. The people ruling the country now lack a democratic legitimization. But you know, most countries have actually the government that suits them best.

What words of advice would you give to anyone thinking of moving to Thailand to live and work?

Don’t do it on your own. Get sent through a big company.

You may have read that the Thai government recently hired an American PR firm, at a cost of $600,000, to "make Thailand look good". What's your take on the government's decision to do that?

Only 600 thousand? Now that’s pretty cheap. I am always surprised here that the Thais take offence that the image of Thailand in the west is like it is. They don’t understand that you can not be a sex destination, sell imitation goods on every street corner and aim to be a middle to high class tourist destination. It’s not enough to build gigantic shopping malls without elevating the overall standard of the country. They focus one or two prestige projects and think, now they have reached first world level. It’s an illusion. But you can’t discuss these things with the Thais, you, as a foreigner, are not allowed to criticize their country. What surprised me in is that the Thais are pretty clueless about their own history. Once I asked the manager of a restaurant at the Intercontinental: Do you know where the curry originally comes from? She pointed to the kitchen. That’s not what I meant. From what country. She then said: From Thailand. We have curry in the south, in the east and in the west of Thailand. She was seriously insulted when I suggested that it originally came over from India, ie Sri Lanka. I never understood why they detest India so much. Their culture has so much Indian influence. It would be like Malaysia dislikes Saudi Arabia.

You've been in Thailand around three years now. Do you see yourself staying in Thailand for the longer term and if not where do you think you will be in say 3 years time?

I have not the slightest idea where I will be, or if I will be dead or if I will be alive, but the chances are slim that I will still be living in Thailand. Let's say someone would come up to me and say: I give you 100 million USD but you never can leave Thailand again for the rest of your life, I would not take the deal.

Are there any places, such as cities or islands, outside of Bangkok that you enjoy visiting in Thailand?

The climate in Kanacharburi is quite unique. I like Khao Yai and Kho Mak.

Part three - Thai women

You've actually worked as a male model in the past. Do you find your good looks help with finding nice Thai girlfriends?

In Thailand? Not at all. Here you need a big wallet, not a photogenic face. Actually they have no taste with western men at all. I found Indonesian women have an eye for guys. In Thailand it’s probably enough if you dress and act rich. I have a couple of very good looking friends, but they dress normal. Jeans, T-shirts. I heard some pretty harsh comments about them from local girls, that they were white trash and had no money. Thai girls can only divide young and old (old means anyone over 28), fat (that could mean someone well within the normal BMI) and slim, rich and poor. Well, rich and poor in their perception which is pretty detached from what we would call reality.

Time and time again I run into guys who completely "don't get" Thai women and what makes them tick. Are there any words of advice you would give to someone relatively new to Thailand who is thinking of getting seriously involved with a Thai lady?

I am not sure why everybody is calling them ladies. Most girls the foreigners meet are prostitutes or con girls. A couple of years ago, it was possible to meet some decent girls. But they just have tried out how it would be with western guys, since ten years ago it was probably only possible for prostitutes to go with us. Due to the poor behavior of many western guys cruising in and out of Thailand or staying in the country, the more accomplished local girls did not continue to mingle with us like they did until 2 years ago. Maybe they just got tired of the foreigners, maybe they did not chose the right people to be with, but also a very bad reputation follows us or rather, is ahead of us. It's like they know already what to think of a foreigner and they have a hard time to distinguish us. For them we are all the same. Now it’s almost difficult to find a decent girl, at least in an acceptable amount of time and effort. If you are looking to marry a Thai girl from a wealthy family and think that you don’t have to support her or even get supported financially or professionally by her family, you could be wrong. In most cases, they will lay out their culture to your disadvantage. Thai girls will always prefer Thai men from a good family, no matter what they tell you. Some girls have attitudes that are not acceptable to Thai men so they will look for western men who have a bigger tolerance. I am unsure, if it is really their choice to be with western men, or if it’s simply necessity, financial or behavior related. Can somebody from an culturally introverted country like Thailand really become your partner? Can you discuss your problems (not only her’s) with her? I doubt it. She will not understand you, she is not trained to understand you and perhaps she simply does not want to understand you. Ok, I am painting a black picture here, I am wrong. They are all good.

In Thailand the desire to maintain "face" often has a higher priority than honesty. Do you think that's a fair statement and if so do you feel that it will always undermine relationships between Western men and Thai women? In other words, do you agree with the sentiment that, due to such cultural differences, relationships between a Western guy and a Thai woman are always doomed to failure, or at best significant compromise at a fundamental level?

In a place of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. Orwell said something like that. The Thais simply can’t communicate to each other. They are bound to a maze of formal behavior. They spend their lives like pressure cookers, always on the verge to explode. Of course, on the surface they maintain a certain happiness and fake unity, but you will find many are pretty melancholic people inside with endless family problems. They usually try to condition us, even before we come to Thailand, how to behave towards them. They know we are on the loose, because we are not bound to their forms of behavior. Actually, more honesty would do some good over here. You don’t help an alcoholic if you buy him another drink. It will not change him, but at least it does not make you an accomplice. After living in Thailand I do appreciate western girls much more. Thai girls might be cute (now I don’t mean the ones from the strip clubs) and easy going on the surface, but they lack substance. The education they received was aimed to make them pawns of the feudal system and the family, not thinking individuals.

Do you see yourself settling down with a nice Thai wife some day?

The question would be where do you want to settle down with a Thai wife. You can’t take them away from Thailand or they will be unhappy. So you would have to live here forever, that would be close to a life sentence for me.

Part four - Business

You are the founder of E&P Ltd. (EPL), a company based in Hong Kong, China. Why was the business formed in Hong Kong, rather than in Bangkok where you live?

My workplace is in Hong Kong, I just hang out in Bangkok between projects.

When was EPL formed and what kind of consultancy contracts do you engage in?

I do consult international companies in HR projects. I also do other stuff and lots of pro bono work. You know, bad taste creates many more millionaires than good taste.

Do you spend much time in Hong Kong and if so how do you think it compares to Bangkok as a place to live and do business?

In Bangkok you are very lucky when people reply your emails or return your phone calls. You will need a big company behind you to be taken seriously. It always seemed to me that in Thailand you have to go down on your knees and ask for permission to do business with a company, even the Thai company makes a lot of money from you.

On UK TV the other night was a programme about British entrepreneurs who had moved to China to seek their fortunes. There are now many Brits there who have started successful businesses such as English schools, manufacturing businesses, consultancies and so on. I even have an American friend who set up a razor blade manufacturing facility in China - he also has plans to start a fruit canning factory! It appears to be relatively easy to do business in China compared to say Thailand - which is surprising given China's history and reputation. Is that a fair statement in your opinion as someone who has actually formed a company in China?

Of what I heard it is equally difficult to run a business in China. Of course, the grass is always greener on the other side. But I met many people who lost substantial amounts of money in China. Mainland China, I don’t mean Hong Kong now, is a very tough place, and the people have some habits we westerners would consider a bit on the rude side. I always find in interesting that the British are still so much all over the world. Unlike the Germans or the Swiss, they help each other, something I envy. They also have the advantage of the language, even their professional knowledge is sometimes a bit mediocre. I am just teasing, come on. But seriously, I never got along with the French abroad.

Do you think Thailand should feel threatened by China or is China a great export opportunity for Thailand?

I think that Thailand has experienced trade deficits with China, but the volume is set to decline. There is also an increased Chinese investment in Thailand. But we should not forget that Japan is the big benefactor for Thailand. I always found the Thais are much more respectful to the Japanese. The westerners are conceived more like clowns with money.

One of the projects initiated by your company EPL was the Bangkok Privilege Programme (BP). Could you explain a little about how the project came about and indicate its level of success?

I wanted to give people the opportunity to see Bangkok through my eyes. I always thought of Bangkok as a construction kit where you could build your view of the city. At one point Wikipedia said about it:

“Bangkok Privilege is a loyalty card for tourists and expats in Bangkok. It aims to promote city tourism and make Bangkok more attractive for tourists, shoppers and business people, not focussing on budget travellers staying mostly around Khaosan Road and tourists or expats only interested in Thailand's red light districts. The card's claim is to prevent foreigners from being overcharged by helping them select reputable businesses and providing discounts. Bangkok Privilege says that it accepts no commission on its third party offers.”

Is the BP geared towards the wealthy business traveller, or is there something there for, say, the tourist or expat living in Bangkok?

I never wanted to get involved with Thailand expats. A friend of mine who runs a Bangkok blog had some very negative experiences with some borderline expats. Of course, he was dealing on another level, but I kind of preferred to not get too close to them.

There is a note on the Bangkok Privilege Programme website stating that no further memberships are currently being accepted "due to recent events". Could you explain that situation in a little more detail please?

There is no detail. Would you seriously want to promote a city where several embassies issued travel warnings and where you don’t know what’s gonna happen tomorrow?

Have you looked at the Thailand Elite Card (TEC) set up by the Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT), and if so what are your opinions on it?

I know some Korean and Japanese who have it. If you like golf and you travel in and out of the country, you actually get real rewards back. It’s actually a very good investment for you, because you get unlimited transports from the airport and you play golf for free. But of course, it had always the touch of bribing the government officially for an unlimited stay. And it initially came with a lot of promises of being able to own land etc. Ah, these Thais take themselves far too serious, with the whole land thing and all that. They just always want the best of both worlds.

Apart from the million Baht price tag for the TEC, one of the big features that was originally trumpeted for it was the "special entry visa". However, if you go to the TEC site and click for actual details on this visa the site is strangely quiet on the subject. Any ideas about what's happening with that?

Of course they are quiet. It was a personal project of the former PM. It is currently revised. Go figure. The whole thing is an extension of the Thai feudal class system and aims to put us in such classes as well, they even started to ask your income on arrival cards. That’s probably none of their business, is it? After living a couple of years in Thailand I know now why they had so many revolutions in Europe.

What are your plans for the future and does EPL have any interesting projects on the horizon?

Yes, I am working on 2 websites at the moment with some friends in Europe. Apart from that I would really take some time off. I also got an over saturation of Asia at the moment. Sometimes it feels like I live permanently in a plastic world. I would like less Ken and Barbie. More Platon and Seneca.

Is there anything else you would like to say?

Sometimes it's better to be married to a single life.